CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

General forum for the UK Keratoconus and self-help group members.

Click on the forum name, General Discussion Forum, above.

Moderators: Anne Klepacz, John Smith, Sweet

longhoc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun 26 Dec 2010 11:13 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Graft(s) and contact lenses

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby longhoc » Thu 21 Jul 2011 7:04 pm

Hi Ian

Sorry for delay in replying; I wanted a friend who has better knowledge than I about general insurance contracts to give me a 2nd opinion on somthing, she's only just come back to me so I've got to compose a (hopefully!) coherent reply. Will do this tomorrow barring disasters -- today has been rather trying :-)

(space_cadet, if you're listening, having just endured what I would charitably describe as a Kafkaesque encounter with the bureaucracies that pass for NHS healthcare in the UK, please tell me how you've managed to stand it after so many months ???!! Only been a week since my graft and my patience is already wafer thin... off for a desperately needed cup of tea now...)

Be back tomorrow...

Cheers

Chris

itansey
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri 22 Aug 2008 11:24 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Spectacles
Location: London

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby itansey » Fri 22 Jul 2011 6:42 am

thanks a million for your help Chris

longhoc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun 26 Dec 2010 11:13 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Graft(s) and contact lenses

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby longhoc » Fri 22 Jul 2011 10:42 am

Right, well done for getting hold of the policy T’s and C’s. They aren’t always easy to track down. You’re absolutely correct, the matter revolves around Exclusion 16. It’s a paragraph only a lawyer could love and just the sort of thing that ends up causing problems – both for policy holders and providers. This is because it is poorly constructed – there are several unrelated and sometimes contradictory clauses strung together which leaves the whole thing open to all sorts of interpretations. In my professional life, I would never recommend anyone sign a contract with that standard of documentation. Unfortunately, this sort of policy (and this is common across the private medical cover sector) isn’t able to be made bespoke, it’s a take-it-or-leave-it package. Let’s try and make some sense of it all...

Exclusion 16 Experimental drugs and treatment

We do not pay for treatment or procedures which, in our reasonable opinion,

For starters, that word “reasonable” is meaningless. All policies are subject to a test of reasonableness, that’s just padding so I’ll delete it. I can also delete “procedures” – don’t know why they make a distinction between “treatment” and “procedures” except that there’s a load of common clauses they listed under “treatment” earlier on in the policy document, now they’ve started talking about “procedures” and are getting confused between the terms (later on in the paragraph they seemingly resort to throwing one or other word in at random, sometimes both !). On we go...

are experimental or unproved based on established medical practice in the United Kingdom,

In fairness, it’s alright to specify a jurisdiction and it’s entirely logical to make it “UK”, but it’s not as simple as that. This “little Englander” rhetoric seems okay but medical practice doesn’t stop at Land’s End. it is influenced by global research and other regulatory bodies. If, for example, Crosslinking gained Phase III trial approval from the FDA in the US, that would be a game-changer and would substantially affect the medical practice in the UK. So I’ll delete that too as it simply adds unnecessary wording with dubious legality. Next...

such as drugs outside the terms of their licence

We don’t need to concern ourselves with drugs here...

or procedures which have not been satisfactorily reviewed by NICE (National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence).

Phewf. Let me reassemble all that into something easier to take in:

Exclusion 16 Experimental drugs and treatment

We do not pay for treatment which, in our opinion, is experimental or unproved based on established medical practice or treatment which has not been satisfactorily reviewed by NICE (National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence).

That almost looks like plain English now !

But then I started running into a real difficulty. What I couldn’t decide – based on how the policy was constructed – was whether the provider’s opinion of a treatment OR a satisfactory review by NICE – or, even, BOTH of these factors must be met to receive the policy benefit. This sort of thing is a recipe for litigation. Usually one or other party initiates a dispute, they try to resolve it, but are not helped by the contract wording. It ends up going to court where a judge has to attempt to make an assessment as to which part of the clause carries greater weight (or, if they all have equal weight). We certainly don’t want to start making litigation statements so let me try and be as even handed as I can. My opinion is that EITHER a satisfactory NICE review OR the provider’s opinion can be used to determine how to process a claim. Further, the provider’s opinion carries, again, from my reading, greater weight that NICE approval. Indeed, it would be possible for the provider’s opinion to lead them to accept a claim even if NICE had not conducted a satisfactory review.

This analysis forms the basis of how I’d suggest you proceed from here. Rather than challenge the provider under the term “satisfactorily reviewed” (which I think we can make a challenge on if it comes to it, because NICE when it initially reviewed Crosslinking, declined the opportunity to put it on the “do not do” list and instead called for clinicians for conduct more trials – which I don’t believe could be automatically read as an “un-satisfactory review). But there’s a better chance of success asking for an explanation from the provider of how they arrived at a conclusion that Crosslinking is, as per their policy “in our opinion, is experimental or unproved based on established medical practice”.

Here, I’m going to make an assumption based on this particular provider’s usual operational practice. Typically, when you get referred to a consultant (e.g. via your GP in primary care, but I’d suspect on the guidance of an optometrist here) this provider offers to give you the details of a “specialist in your area” or some such who is “already on our list of pre-approved partners” or similar words. Please let me know though if you selected your consultant outside of their list of pre-approved ones as that will change things. But guessing that you did, and it is they who have said that your current state of Keratoconus progression, age profile and corneal thickness indicates Crosslinking, you can I think see what’s coming next !

If the provider then, basically, turns around and says that their recognised clinician has recommended something unproved based on established medical practice, well, why aren’t they taking that up with their consultant ? The provider’s Terms for Recognised Consultants (http://www.bupa.co.uk/jahia/webdav/site ... ntract.pdf) clearly states that “you (the consultant) agree to provide all treatment in accordance with the Clinical Standards published on http://www.bupa.co.uk/consultantsonline”. Well, that's the provider's process, and they need to manage it effectively. If they don't, then you -- the policy holder -- are entitled to redress.

The noose tightens !

Then say that, obviously something has gone awry between the provider and their recognised clinician, and you’re perhaps understandably now aggrieved that you’re an innocent bystander caught in the middle of it. Advise that you’re happy to accept as a remedy that the provider simply honours the claim as made originally i.e. they cover the Crosslinking. Alternately, if they are not willing to do that, then another way they can put things right is to refer you to another of their recognised clinicians. Advise that, to avoid a repeat occurrence, they must choose the consultant and agree to abide by their clinical judgement and judgement of whether the treatment complies with the provider's Clinical Standards -- and if needed the provider and the clinician will resolve any disparity between clinical need and the Clinical Standards between them without having to inconvenience you further. Advise the provider that you are willing to give them another attempt to exercise the policy competently, with another recognised clinician who will, hopefully, follow their T’s and C’s for Recognised Consultants this time. Add that because their Recognised Consultant did not follow their prescribed process, you expect your travelling costs and time off work to be reimbursed up to a reasonable amount for obtaining this second opinion.

I can’t obviously say what the provider will do, but I’ve a hunch they may decide – in view of the relatively small cost in the big scheme of things – to settle ex-gratia. They – or their consultant, or both – would be at fault for letting things get this far by recommending an “un-covered” (known as “wide of scheme”) treatment. If they've shown themselves to have mal-administered things, it becomes leverage to have your claim approved.

That’s all a bit disingenuous of course. In reality, we're playing with a policy's terms to get us where we need to be. Which we shouln't need to resort to. The real issue is that clinical practice is now becoming firmly established as offering Crosslinking. It’s just that NICE hasn’t caught up with this yet, the insurance industry lazily follows NICE and doesn’t bother to engage its collective brain to resolve the issue and it’s left to policy holders to fight their corner -- by whatever means we can.

Unfortunately, I don’t know for a fact that you saw one of their Recognised Consultants. If not, it’s a much sticker wicket and none of the above applies. If that is the case, let me know and we’ll have to go down the NICE “satisfactory review” route. But that’s a bit of a weaker argument (although it still has merit).

Two final things. One is that – depending on how good you are on the phone (and I’m terrible, I loose my thread, forget what I was supposed to say and what I’ve said already) – it may well be worth putting this in writing when you challenge your provider’s decision to reject the claim. If so, am happy to review the letter beforehand. In writing, you can simply state your case and not get wound up by the often intransigent person you're having to deal with at a call centre. But if you find it easier to do things over the phone than to compile a written response, by all means do it that way, whatever you’re happier doing.

Secondly, your moving jobs and how it affects your policy. I could write a similar amount on that one alas ! (oh no, please don’t says everyone !). The short version is that, if your claim is accepted by your current provider while you are with your existing employer then that claim must be managed even once you move to a new employer. If this drags on for more than the three months, and your claim still isn't approved, then you’ll need to start all over again when your contract of employment changes – even if the provider stays the same. This is the technical “letter of the law” answer. But it would be worth asking if the provider would transfer you “without cessation” or under “continuous cover”. The key reason is that if you are starting under, essentially, a new policy, then your Keratoconus may very well be classed as a pre-existing condition and might not be covered. That only applies if TUPE is not involved. If TUPE is involved, everything changes and you should not be treated any differently by the insurance provider (even if the management of the scheme you belong to changes in terms of administration and/or management trust). Sorry – it’s a big, complicated subject that one. If you can wrap up your Crosslinking claim before this potential spanner is thrown into the works, so much the better. No problem at all if you need more information on this one as you get nearer the date of transfer.

Anything not clear, just let me know.

Best wishes, good luck.

Chris

itansey
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri 22 Aug 2008 11:24 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Spectacles
Location: London

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby itansey » Thu 18 Aug 2011 9:23 am

Hi Chris, sorry for the big delay in getting back to you but I’ve been really busy at work. In response to your questions, I selected Dr Sheraz Daya (Centre for Sight) based on the recommendation of my optician. Dr Daya is a recognised consultant of BUPA. Please advise on the best way forward.

Thanks,

Ian

itansey
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri 22 Aug 2008 11:24 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Spectacles
Location: London

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby itansey » Fri 19 Aug 2011 7:48 pm

Does anyone know about the CCSD who have an authorisation code for CXL (C5130), not sure if its still active or not, do you know anything about this and if it will help our case against health insurers.

The Clinical Coding & Schedule Development (CCSD) Group consists of representatives from five major private healthcare insurers: Aviva, AXA-PPP healthcare, Bupa, PruHealth and Simplyhealth

http://www.ccsd.org.uk/CodePrinciples?CodeID=324

longhoc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun 26 Dec 2010 11:13 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Graft(s) and contact lenses

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby longhoc » Sat 20 Aug 2011 11:46 am

Hi Ian

Okay, here’s what I’d recommend you do:

1) Contact BUPA either in writing or by phone stating that you saw one of their partner (i.e. authorised) consultants

2) Advise BUPA that the consultant’s best advice was the you were indicated for Crosslinking

3) BUPA will most likely counter that Crosslinking is in their opinion experimental

4) Explain that both you and the consultant have checked and Crosslinking is on the CCSD list of accepted procedures (code C5130 as you’ve already found out)

5) State that as both the consultant (who BUPA has authorised) and the CCSD scheme participants including BUPA recognise Crosslinking you are at a loss to understand how they can reject your claim. Further, the NICE position is, from your understanding that Crosslinking is not classed as experimental, although NICE are encouraging clinicians to submit results of the procedure to get a better idea of indications and contra indications. This is not the same as experimental as defined in the insurance policy’s Terms and Conditions.

6) Tell BUPA that as they had previously been rejecting your claim, you expect them to either:

a) Accept the claim based on the above facts

or

b) Take the matter up with their consultant (because the consultant is the one who is advising you to have the procedure) to resolve the issue which is not of your making. Advise the insurer that you are not obliged to remedy problems arising from how they interact with their recognised consultants and this is their responsibility not yours.

or

c) Tell you the name of another consultant who they would suggest you see who is willing to operate under their recognised consultant scheme’s code. DO NOT let the insurer talk you into finding another consultant yourself from their panel of recognised clinicians. Advise the insurer that you have already seen one of their recognised consultants, this has resulted in an impasse between you and the insurer so it is up to them to make sure they find another consultant who adheres to their criteria when suggesting treatment.

One final point: whether you communicate with the insurer by phone or in writing, make certain that you include the fact that as your keratoconus is progressive, you would view any further delay in starting treatment as exacerbating the condition. Please us the exact phrase “they must resolve the matter without delay because time is of the essence” (this has an accepted legal meaning which is effectively saying that any unreasonable delay is going to increase their potential liability).

As I mentioned previously, you’re in a situation where you’ve been placed as “piggy in the middle” between the consultant and the insurer. This isn’t right and it is up to the insurer to sort it out.

Let me know how you get on !

Best wishes

Chris

itansey
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri 22 Aug 2008 11:24 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Spectacles
Location: London

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby itansey » Sat 20 Aug 2011 12:45 pm

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for the feedback, should i also say to them that i want the matter treated as a formal complaint and that I will be making a complaint to the Ombudsman or should i wait to get their feedback to your suggestions.

Thanks,

Ian

longhoc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun 26 Dec 2010 11:13 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Graft(s) and contact lenses

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby longhoc » Sat 20 Aug 2011 1:32 pm

Hello Ian

Yes. say that due to the delay in processing the claim on grounds which you believe to be spurious, ask this now be handled as a formal complaint.

Unfortunately because this isn't a policy which you purchased directly yourself you don't have the right to take the matter to the Ombudsman (so don't mention that!) Not ideal but it is a sad fact that retail purchasers have more rights than do people who get cover via their employers. There will be some sort of mediation available via your HR team, but will be much easier if we can persuade the insurer to put things right without having to go down that route.

Cheers

Chris

itansey
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri 22 Aug 2008 11:24 am
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Spectacles
Location: London

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby itansey » Sun 30 Oct 2011 11:18 am

Hi,

I just wanted to let everyone know that BUPA finally agreed to pay for my CXL procedure after a lot correspondence..great news. :D

Thanks,

Ian

dalbeath
Regular contributor
Regular contributor
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu 06 Jan 2011 3:01 pm
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
Vision: Contact lenses
Location: Fife
Contact:

Re: CXL paid for WPA medical insurance

Postby dalbeath » Sun 30 Oct 2011 6:13 pm

Well done, I'm still battling with Pru Health over mine, But the lovely Longhoc is helping me so fingers crossed :)


Return to “General Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 62 guests