Animal testing

[jayboi2005]

what i dont like is the experimentation point. i see this in the same light as doing an experimentation on a human. animals have feelings as well even is we dont always notice them. but this is a subject area that has two options yes or no personally i say NO animal testing is wrong no matter what.

[Sweet]

Hhmm what if it came about, which would be prefectly feasible, but that all the eye drops we need and contact lens solution we have to use was tested on animals first? Do you think it would stop you from using them in order to enable you to see?

Also something as simple as a paracetamol tablet had to come from somewhere, and as it is a basis for most painkillers i would say that at some point animals were used in order for it to be licensed.

As bad as it sounds and it does to me to, but we need so many things in the form of drugs to enable a lot of us to see and be healthy, and i am more than sure that most had to be tested on animals at some point. Even herbal remedies have strict guidelines before they are licensed for us to use.

Sweet X x X

[Andrew MacLean]

Sweet, you make some good points, and you make them well.

Andrew

[GarethB]

Sweet,

You make another interesting point 'with all the testing over the years we should know which chemcials are safe and which are not'.

Chemicals are constantly being reclassified and in the past few years some I worked with that were considerd only to be mildly toxic with short term effects are now labelled as carcinogens.

Unfortunatly for me this means just I appear to have got a grip on KC, I was asked at the hospital afetr a routine check for my weight (I have always had trouble putting weight on and staying ata stable weight, now I have piled it on!) and with a recent kidney problem that put me in casualty before Christmas. The tests I had before Christmas showed no abnormalaities, so the consultant has asked me to undergo further tests and one is looking at the inside of my bladder to ensure I am free from tumors which may have caused the problem. He explained what he was looking for was rare in someone of my age, but in view of my past work despite having kept a diary of safety equipment used and contaminents I worked with while being protected may not have been enough 15 years ago when I was taking more precautions than legislation dictated.

[Andrew MacLean]

it is, of course, not only a question of testing chemicals or Pharmaceuticals. Reference has been made above to the testing of procedures.

It is hard to think of a single invasive surgical procedure that was not pioneered on animal subjects. This includes C3R.

there is a principal that was developed after the second world war. Everybody knows that the concentration camps were also the locii of surgical experiments, and that much of the work to map the brain was undertaken with non-volunteer human subjects.

The issue that arose was whether it was right for the general world of medical science to benefit from the unethical approach of the original researchers. In the end, the view was taken that it would be a denial of the suffering and sacrifice of the victims of these experiments if the results were not used.

On this basis, it would be quite consistent for jayboi to maintain his objection to NEW experiments of pharmaceuticals and procedures on animals, and still allow himself to use and benefit from PREVIOUS experiments.

Andrew

ps, John thank you for untangling this string. I absolutely agree that it sits better on its own, although the context of my original post on this subject is a bit lost: somebody was complaining about the 'ethics committees' that they thought were stifling UK medical research into new procedures for the KC sufferer.

[Andrew MacLean]

Gareth

All the best with your upcoming examination.

You are very much in our thoughts.

It is in the nature of the diagnostician that he will always look first for the worst cause. If that is not found, he will look for the second worst cause, all the way down to the most benign.

Still the examination itself will not be a pleasant experience. If like your pre-Christmas test, it turns up clear, then maybe the discomfort will have been worth while.

Yours aye

Andrew

[Sweet]

Gareth

Hoping your test results come back and it's good news. Andrew is right that medical personnel will always look for the worst cause first. Maybe it is so that when the patient then gets cleared of that and given a lesser diagnosis that they are hoping that they will feel better!

Just as all of our chest pains in 'A & E' are seen as indicating an MI until tests reveal otherwise. As everything progresses what usually happens is that this severe chest pain which obviously did get accompanied with shortness of breath, pain going down the left arm and nausea and vomiting (all major signs with a MI) then turns out to be a simple case of heartburn. The patient then leaves after a twelve hour blood test result being negative with gaviscon! But you know it is better to be safe than sorry!

Wishing you all the best!

Sweet X x X

[John Smith]

I would also think that the "worst case first" would be for the very reason intimated by Sweet - you need to be checked for the worst case first, because if it is the worst case, you would want treatment to start as early as possible.

[GarethB]

Thanks for all the kind words, I am sure I would like to work with all you guys.

Doing what I am unsure but gardening has cropped up before, so perhaps garden/interior design.

John and Jay can look after the computers, I know we have some good admin people here. There are some graphic designh poeple in the group, Sweet will lookafter first aid, along with Health & Safety. I would happilly work outside gardening and doing odd jobs

Back on the subject in hand and to be fare that is what the consultant said and he followed it up saying it is a precautionary measure.

That I am trying to keep foremost in my mind.

Will try and keep this seperate as this is KC supprot afterall

[Sweet]

Hehehe now there is a strange idea!!

Maybe a new KC workforce, but at least we would all be inventive, creative and work dam hard! And you know we could always excuse each other because of a bad eye day and needing to take out our lenses!

Now that seems like a very understanding workforce to me with NO discrimination, and being health and safety i'd be open to giving you a day off! LMAO!!!

Now where can i get an application form hehe in BOLD print?!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sweet X x X