Body image

[Louise Pembroke]

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread. ... 0220193711

Depressing eh!! I find the whole size zero stuff scary too. What does zero say to us? that we don't exist?!
I've always viewed the preoccupation with youth and thinness as one of the causes of obesity and distressed eating. Two sides of the same coin.
Although emaciated models and fashion designers don't cause distressed eating, their influence I feel plays a part in helping to maintain distorted body image. Fashion designers can never give a credible reason for designing all their clothing in size 8 for very tall women. Top Shop has introduced size 4 and this is a shop used by many teenagers and they will aspire to fit it.
The average dress size for women in the UK is not 4 or 8, so little wonder why women feel 'fat' at size 12.
I supported the 'ban' of models at fashion week with a BMI of less than 18, as a statement, as a stand. It won't change anything overnight but it was nice to see someone somewhere saying NO.
I also loath these 'celebrity' mags which endlessly detail who has lost/gained weight, who's the thinnest etc. I refuse to buy them!!

[Pat A]

Louise
Couldn't agree with you more on all counts. I have had a constant battle with my weight all my life - including as a child - and I really find this obsession with being ultra slim almost insulting. I go to the gym, I try to keep fit, eat a healthy diet - and yet I would be classed as obese by the criteria they use! (I am still a bit overweight but not excessively so!) To say one is "fat" at size 12 (and I am not a size 12!) is ridiculous - unless I suppose you are only 3 ft tall and aged 6!

My next door neighbour's Aunt is a very well known TV actress and we have met her several times - she is tiny - much smaller than she looks on TV, and she admits that it is a real struggle for her to stay slim - but she has to if she wants the work. She is in her 40's but is still expected to have the body of a teenager. That can't be right.

[Louise Pembroke]

Sadly this is the case Pat.
I remember a Star Trek actor stating at a convention that the women have it so much harder than the male actors regarding appearance. Actors especially on the tv and in Hollywood have to maintain their weight lower because that determines what work they get.
When I went into full time dance training at 16 there was so much emphasis on being thin at any cost with no regard for nutrition. It was a case of spot the student without any eating difficulties.
Then there are the thousands of women who wouldn't be formally diagnosed as having an "eating disorder" but their lives are determined, limited by, and made miserable by poor body image and yo-yo eating.
The cultural obsession with thinness is killing people's quality of life, or physically wrecking them with obesity, malnourishment, or eating distress that would be viewed as diagnosable.
It's a ball & chain around our feet which is very effective at ensuring we don't reach our full potential. I think us women have to take the lead though.
I've liked the Dove real beauty campaigns which also addresses ageism, good on them! I've always thought having 20 somethings advertise products for mature skin is somewhat ridiculous!
Did you ever see that documentary by Victoria Wood a while back? It was excellent because it looked at these issues intelligently. Likewise I liked the recent doc about a women doing an experiment to see what it took to achieve size 0, which meant 500 calories a day with exercise. She was so tired and felt awful!
This is a dis-ease of western culture which won't change unless we refuse to buy into it. It will take a similar kind of effort and determination that it took the suffragettes to get us the vote and this area is where contemporary western feminism should be focusing because of the human cost.

[John Fontanini]

I had a friend who visited a lot of pro-ana sites, and some of them were awful. It's hard to find a girl my age (18) who is actually comfortable with their weight. However many of them I ask, they ALL say they consider themselves fat.

Celeb-worship is the key reason for this; the best selling magazines now are the ones that focus entirely on "celebrities" (the criteria for becoming a celebrity now seems to be appearing on a reality TV show, far from what the actual word was intended to describe - someone who is "celebrated").

People need to take a stand against this more. Unfortunately it needs to mainly come from women just saying "I'm comfortable with myself". The media bullying teenagers into eating disorders can be fought, but it requires people to stop just thinking "I don't agree with it" and start thinking "I'm going to do something about it".

[Louise Pembroke]

I agree John.

It's a complex issue because the designers [many are men, not that I am in any way apportioning blame because we ALL we need to take a stand] insist on size 8. They earn obscene amounts of money as do the catwalk models therefore they have no incentive to do otherwise.
I think we need to instill in girls as children in schools that their value and worth is not located in their size.
The Pro-Anne sites are again a product of our society

[John Fontanini]

That's a fair point about designers, but I still think if enough people stopped aspiring to look like the models, they would have no choice but to change themselves. Of course that's a very hard goal, so doing something with the designers might be a good start.

The best way to inflict change is to target children and let the "revolution" work its way up, so I definitely agree with you on better education.

[Pat A]

You are so right about the magazines. I confess to reading the occasional one since I've been off work - partly 'cos they aren't hard to read - lots of pictures! - and I struggle to read anything much at the moment. But they really are full of absolute rubbish and frequently slate the "celebs" for having an extra half inch! What we need is a few more people like Charlotte Church to stop the rot. She is proof that you can look good without being skinny- and she's not afraid to speak out.

Unfortunately I didn't see either of the documentaries you mention Louise - but I too am impressed by the Dove adverts. Maybe we should audition! (even though I think I'm a lost cause now!)

How we can educate the youth of the future I just don't know - children today seem so much to want to follow the pack and give in to peer pressure that it's hard for them to break out away form the masses. Parents have to take a much more pro-active role I guess form an early age, but certainly where I live, many of the parents are half the problem! The women are competing with their teenage daughters! (Thank goodness I had a son!)

[Matthew_]

The issue seems to be that the 'celebrity' business be it acting or dancing or IT girls or whatever ARE encouraging very unhealthy diets. A BMI of less than 18 is potentially harmful and size zero models ARE emaciated. But the industry seems to diverging fast from the reality we all live in. I can't see the models / actresses etc making a stand on their own, the industry (if it exists corporately) needs to have the courage to reverse this sick and vulgar trend.
What I really do not understand is how these people are held up as something to aspire to. They are extremely unattractive!

[Louise Pembroke]

In one of the docs the presenter delivered a skeleton in a size 0 dress to a designer and set up a food stall outside a model agency! Great stuff!
It's so deeply ingrained in our culture and minds that it is hard to know where to start because the diet/fashion/plastic surgery industries are making billions out of womens anxiety. It's a hard battle in our own minds, I still struggle with it myself even though I don't buy into it. The fact that I don't buy into it but still struggle with it makes me even more frustrating! I've only ever met one woman in my entire life who genuinely didn't care what she looked like, what she weighed. I so admired her, she was my role model, but how do we shift our thinking? If I find it hard as a feminist who has a fair understanding of the 'beauty myth' so how hard it must be for teenagers who are desparate to fit in, who can't easily go against peer pressure.
Perhaps we need pressure groups to take on the fashion, diet and fast food industries both with direct action and formal debate. Taking this into schools. Ultimately, I want to see basic health as the 'ideal' instead of thinness.

[Andrew MacLean]

The really sad thing is that the 'size zero' fad is drawing in young men as well as young women. For my part I'd welcome some affirmative action to prevent the sexualization of very young people in cinema, advertizing and fashion, and the positive portrayal of 'ordinary' shaped people.

The more the promote the precocious child, the more adult people are going to strive for the child-like androgyny of the size zero model (male or female).

the spooky thing is that I know I am overweight. i do not need to see living skeletons on tv to tell me that I have a stone or two I could shed. My question is, do they know that they are underweight? If not, who will tell them?

At least the Royal Ballet has (at last) banned dancers who are underweight.

Andrew