Graft size and lifespan of graft

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Vic
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Postby Vic » Sat 23 Dec 2006 7:36 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Jay thanks for the article, that’s very reassuring to know, and yes the ophth said that there are pros and cons to small grafts, pro being that rejection is less likely (although I’ve already had one rejection episode but they think that settled down ok with no long term effects) and that the cons were being the surface was harder to correct than with larger sized grafts. I am still a bit confused as to why he said what he did but I think you’re right Anne that sometimes they make pretty devastating sweeping statements like that and sometimes don’t quite think just how much such throw-away comments can have on us. Andrew, he also mentioned that the small graft did mean that a future regraft would be easier as, like you describe, they could just make the size slightly bigger.

A long-term study into graft lifespan would be very interesting and perhaps give us some more quantitative objective evidence and help to allay some of comments made, because saying things that have such massive repercussions are pretty hard to swallow and can leave you reeling. Yes to a certain extent you have to just get on with it and appreciate the here and now and the vision that is there, I guess for me the situation is slightly different than for many - there is much less room for adapting to decreasing vision, there is that strict cut-off point of I have to make driving standard vision, or I have to take sick leave until I can / essentially, give up medicine if it came to that. So throw away comments about needing a regraft in max ten years really do leave you reeling and you can’t help but contemplate the future a bit.

And Lou, thank you for your confidence in me and RGPs. Reckon I would qualify for minstrels on script? :wink:
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Postby jayuk » Sat 23 Dec 2006 7:40 pm

Centre for Sight have one that goes back 11 years now.....which is very impressive....but 11 years doesnt really prove anything as its relative...whent his figure gets to 20 years then its something we can class as Long Term......
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Louise Pembroke
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Postby Louise Pembroke » Sat 23 Dec 2006 7:58 pm

Yes dear friend you should get minstrels on script, I reckon anyone trying lenses should be given chocolate by their optoms, I'll try to fabricate some evidence about how it improves brain/eye co-ordination!
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GarethB
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Postby GarethB » Sun 24 Dec 2006 7:42 pm

When you have a graft that is quite old and you have never met anyone with KC it is very easy to think noone will be interested.

I found this site in 2004 after my eyes started playing up and I was going back into the NHS system. Before that I had been off their radar so to speak for over 10 years completely problem free.

It is a fact I am not represenatative of the KC graft population so it is quite possible more grafts than we realise last in excess of 20 or 30 years just by the very fact we do not hear from them.
Gareth

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Anne Klepacz
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Graft size and lifespan of graft

Postby Anne Klepacz » Sat 30 Dec 2006 3:44 pm

The other thing to bear in mind re graft survival is that graft techniques and aftercare are improving all the time, so people who have had grafts recently are probably more likely to have grafts that stay healthy for a long time. I think that's something John Dart mentioned in his conference talk when he discussed a 25yr study Moorfields had done on graft survival - eg rejection and failure rate was higher in the first eye for people who had the second eye grafted, because they hadn't fully appreciated the risks to the first eye at that point. That doesn't happen any more. There are a few group members who've had a regraft at 20 or 25 yrs (not sure if any of them post on the forum) but equally there are quite a few of us with grafts still going strong after 20 years. With advances in knowledge, the future's bright!
Anne
(And a belated Happy Christmas and New Year to one and all - I went away over Christmas).

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Louise Pembroke
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Postby Louise Pembroke » Sat 30 Dec 2006 3:55 pm

Mr B told me that rejection rates were higher with the 2nd eye being grafted but I didn't realise graft failure rates are higher for the first grafted eye. That does scare me because all my vision is in my first grafted eye and is over 20 years old, the thought of having that eye grafted again is not good.

Does anyone know the symptoms of graft failure? Is it the case that if that happens you wake up one day and just don't see out of that eye?
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Anne Klepacz
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Graft size and lifespan of graft

Postby Anne Klepacz » Sat 30 Dec 2006 4:19 pm

Louise - I should have looked up exactly what Mr Dart said (I did the transcript for the booklet so I've got it here).
"We've only got one 25 year study which showed 60% survival in first eyes at 25 years, and 90% in second eyes. The difference is because of the effect of rejection in the first eye when grafting the second. But at the time these patients were grafted we didn't know much about keeping the endothelium healthy which is what determines the survival of most grafts. We know a lot more about that now so I think the survival rate will improve."
I may be wrong, but I assumed he meant that the failure in the first eye happened not long after the second eye was grafted. I certainly had a major rejection episode in eye 1 after eye 2 was grafted (only became major because I left it so long to go to A&E!) but they managed to reverse the rejection. If I'd waited any longer, I guess I could have had a graft failure. 20 yrs on, both grafts are doing fine. As for those that do need a regraft after 20/25 yrs, I think that it's a gradual thing of the sight deteriorating in the grafted eye. Maybe someone who has had the experience can tell us if that's right.
Anne

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Postby jayuk » Sat 30 Dec 2006 5:03 pm

Just to add to what Anne said, the Endothelial cells that we all have in the rear cornea do not regenerate...so when we have cornea transplants (PK) we also get given another set of these cells.

Now these cells are extremely sensitive and thus the corneal tissue needs to be handled VERY carefully. This is another reason why there are varied ways in which to handle and store cornea donor tissue

In the initial 6-12 months these cells do die away on PK grafts, but there not in large quantities. Thereafter, the cornea needs to maintain a decent cell count to ensure that the cornea remains clear and does its job of pumping the water and liquids out......any cell count lower then 700 Cells / mm2 is likely to promote cornea swelling........

So a good question to ask when havig a FULL Penetrating Cornea is What was the Endothelial Cell Count.

However, with new technicais such as DLEK and few other variations...Id suspect that endothelial failure will not be a big issue as it has been in around 3-5 years time....

J
KC is about facing the challenges it creates rather than accepting the problems it generates -

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Louise Pembroke
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Postby Louise Pembroke » Sat 30 Dec 2006 5:35 pm

Thanks Anne, I had hoped for better than 60% survival in first eyes at 25 years
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Louise Pembroke
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Postby Louise Pembroke » Sat 30 Dec 2006 5:37 pm

Do you think it would make any difference that I had no rejection in eye 1, but I had a couple of episodes in eye 2?
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